Season 1 Key Takeaways

Featuring Tulaine Montgomery, Jeffrey Walker, and English Sall

Tulaine [00:00:01] You're listening to system Catalysts. Each week, you will hear personal stories of changemakers who are bringing more inclusive, connective, system level solutions to our most persistent challenges. I'm Tulane Montgomery. Hello. Hello good people. It has been a minute so I'm very excited for this episode. Now, if you've been following our journey, you know, we've been chatting with incredible System Catalyst. We wrapped up our first season a few weeks ago with over 30 guests joining us, and today you're in for a treat because you get to hear some of the best parts of those conversations. Kind of like CliffsNotes. For those of you who haven't caught up with our show yet. Apart from that, you'll also hear from my partners in podcast mischief, Jeff Walker, and English. So we'll talk about what stuck with us and what we're seeing play out in our own work as philanthropists and social impact leaders. If listening to one of these guests tickles your fancy, check out the show notes to listen to the full episode. All right, let's get started.

Jeff [00:01:26] We haven't been together in a while.

Tulaine [00:01:28] I know it's been a minute.

English [00:01:30] I know.

Tulaine [00:01:31] It's been a minute or two.

English [00:01:32] And you've been just a jet setter.

Tulaine [00:01:35] Yeah, it's been an exciting season for me. I am just shy of 90 days into serving as, CEO of New Profit, and I've gotten even more confirmation, y'all, that system catalysts are abundant, you know? And so it is a good thing to be able to be in communication with people who are committed to making things better.

Jeff [00:01:53] Isn't that the key is finding that there are a lot of system catalysts out there. And that's what I enjoyed about the season, is just hearing all these different kinds of catalysts and what they're doing and discovering more of them.

Tulaine [00:02:09] Before we jump into this, I'm going to refresh your memory and give you a rundown about us. Your hosts, English runs a data company. And believe it or not, an alpaca farm. You heard me right, alpacas. That's just how many multitudes English brings to the table. Jeff is a philanthropist who works in the community health space along with English. He also serves on the board of the organization that I run knew profit in me. I'm an entrepreneur, a cellist, and the newly minted host of another podcast called Say More with Tulane Montgomery. The three of us combined have several decades of work in philanthropy, often with system catalysts. Yet these interviews left us and are often surprised and sometimes challenged by other people's experiences.

English [00:02:57] I was actually, I was on a panel this morning hosted by APF African Philanthropy Forum, and the panel was centered on best practices for collaboration. And, they asked me, what is some advice to the best collaborations that I've ever been a part of? What are some best practices? I said, it's a movement if it moves without you, which is something that Aisha said when she was quoting Henry in the Giving Tuesday episode. And I think that everybody was like, oh, that's a beautiful piece of advice. And I think that, there's so many amazing nuggets to take, both in the spirit of systems change and systems catalysts and in collaboration in general.

Tulaine [00:03:44] English is talking about Asha Curran and Henry Thames, co-founders of Giving Tuesday. You might know the highlight reel. Giving Tuesday has leaders in 90 countries. Last year, they raised $3.1 billion in just 24 hours. But what about their early days?

Asha [00:04:04] I even bought a physical map of the world. I put it over my desk and I bought different colored pins. And I had my global community manager and I sat with her and I said, okay, we need to map out where we already have representation and where we need it and we using these different colored pins. And then her job was to sort of research the most appropriate giving Tuesday leaders in those regions. It was such a failure. It just didn't work at all. And we just totally and I realized I was betraying our own, you know, our own principles, which are really all around hand raising. And, you know, I think there's lots of things that make a movement a movement, right? Henry says it's movement if it moves without you, and there's lots of definitions of movement than any definition I've ever heard. Giving Tuesday is one.

Tulaine [00:04:56] Asia is absolutely spot on. Building a movement is a bit like channeling your inner Yoda. You've got to master the art of letting go. What we learned from catalysts like Asha is that they really couldn't have done it alone, especially in a context completely different from their own.

Asha [00:05:14] We have this great idea. It's going to spread in Brazil, it's going to spread in the UK. And oh my gosh, here's all these other countries as well. Of course, the people who live in those places should lead those efforts. I don't mean to say that we were flighty or made decisions lightly, especially if they could impact people's lives, but it seemed like an absolute basic truism that somebody in Ukraine, somebody in Tanzania, somebody in Colombia would know how to inspire generosity in those places.

Tulaine [00:05:44] While local adaptation is key. System catalysts work as the glue that brings everyone together toward a common goal. Another example is Wendy Kopp of Teach for all, who united 61 organizations worldwide.

Wendy [00:05:58] 13 people from 13 countries that expressed interest in this. And they were really looking for for help, right. And support and such. And I actually wasn't sure that made sense initially. I mean, of course, the reality in the U.S. and the reality in India, for example, it just seems so far from each other. But Shaheen Mistry, who was it was one of those first 13 people who's a very persuasive and visionary person, somehow convinced me to go to India. And she organized this week, the first thing we did was go on a school visit, and all I could think was, I mean, it was shocking to me. I felt like it was just like the school visits that I had been on all over our own country, and just realized that the circumstances of the most marginalized kids there are probably more similar across the US in India than to the more privileged kids in each of our countries. I just could not get over kind of the similar roots of the issues that we were addressing, and it was really at that moment that I realized it would be really short sighted not to find a way to do this together.

Tulaine [00:07:21] Here's Jeff and myself reflecting more on the story of teach for all.

Jeff [00:07:25] Instead of recruiting people to join with you. What I heard in bunch of the episodes was that they're hand raisers. Asher Kern calls them for Wendy. She would start a teach for all because someone from India came to her and kind of said, I want to do this. Or we had all these peer to peer networks because people are raising their hands saying, I want to be associated with this cause. I want to see be associated with this movement. So how do these catalysts produce a culture that is welcoming and open? And there's no top down in these organizations. So it's moving and they get it moving, but they're also listening and they're also partners.

Tulaine [00:08:11] I think that's a really important piece. Jeff, you mentioned Wendy Karp, founder of teach for America in the early days, I think really wrestled with.

Tulaine [00:08:19] With.

Tulaine [00:08:20] The lessons and themes of teach for America be relevant outside of U.S. boundaries. And what you know, she learned in partnership with others is that while there has to be local adaptation or local context, that there's some core themes around building a movement and systems change that are relevant and universal no matter where you are. And it was really interesting to me to notice, like, hey, where you start isn't necessarily where you end up on this as a system catalyst, that there is the opportunity to start with a view and to be kind of informed and to have that view evolve based on the relationships you have with other actors in the system. I just felt like Food Core gave us a really elegant example of that.

Jeff [00:09:02] I agree with you, Tulane. That food core evolved. They discovered that equity was a really key part of their program, and that they weren't that effective until they figured that out.

Tulaine [00:09:17] In case you aren't familiar, Food Corps sends their members to underserved communities . Curt Ellis co-founded the organization 15 years ago with the goal of connecting young people to healthy food.

Curt [00:09:29] When we started Food Corps, there were six of us who co-founded the organization. We were all white people. The first set of food core classes was overwhelmingly white liberal arts college grads who ended up in a community they knew very little about. You know, folks from Middlebury showing up in the Mississippi Delta, trying to be useful, but realizing pretty quickly how little they knew about that community and how unsuccessful they could be working outside of their context and without enough depth of cultural understanding and networks and relationships and credibility.

Tulaine [00:10:05] Since Curt has changed the organization inside and out. Their leadership team and staff are majority people of color, and they recruit most members within the communities they serve.

Curt [00:10:17] Food core has been on an intense and challenging and important journey towards anti-racism within the organization. I've been on that journey as an individual, and so much of that has been about excavating the ways in which, our mission is the justice mission. And for us to be successful at that, we really have to show up in communities with real intentionality about who we are, who we know, and who we work with, how we understand the systems that we are working in, and what kind of future we're trying to create.

Tulaine [00:10:52] That's right. If you ever find yourself at a perhaps difficult realization that you've messed up in your approach, simply tune in and listen to the very communities you want to help. And if that means making a U-turn, well, embrace the challenge and change course. Just like Kurt, many guests this season opened up to us about their struggles. One of them was Teresa Hodge, the powerhouse behind Mission Launch and our three score. Our three score is an alternative for background checks that increases opportunities for people with criminal records.

English [00:11:25] One of the things that's been reoccurring that I've seen, and I think actually Theresa in this last episode, really honed in on it and I want to call it out. And her honesty about the pain of the process of getting to this point was so striking and so vulnerable, and I appreciated it so much. And I think there's bits of it throughout the season of the truth of the difficulty that people are facing because they have to fight, because they are literally building something from nothing.

Tulaine [00:11:59] Here's my conversation with Theresa. What challenges did you face as a woman? As someone who has been incarcerated as a business leader with this counterculture idea? What challenges did you come across?

Theresa [00:12:12] Well, you just named them all right there. I mean, yeah, and the fact that I came home from prison. You know, almost 50, you know, to that. I think you would have it all layered in there that, you know, I am a black woman who came up with this idea. And I tell this story often, and it's sickening to some degree. But I remember talking to an investor about R3 score. He was like, oh my God, this is brilliant. This is $1 billion company. And he was right.

Theresa [00:12:47] He said, but.

Theresa [00:12:47] Who came up with the idea? You know, I'm like, oh, what I did, you know, my daughter and I, you know, that I got to know.

Theresa [00:12:55] And I kept talking.

Theresa [00:12:56] And he asked me again, you know, and I, you know, I always felt like, well, maybe he didn't understand what I said. So I went on and on. And by the third time, it hit me that. It's such a brilliant idea and having the conversation with me. He did not believe I was brilliant enough to come up with a brilliant idea. And you know when you say that it means when it comes to creating billion dollar businesses, when it comes to creating brilliant ideas, somehow we believe that only a few people have the ability to do that. And usually they live on the West Coast. They usually go to Ivy League schools. They usually are white men.

English [00:13:46] Think about that for a second, because it really was something that came through in some of our conversations of just like, yes, this work is inspiring. Yes, this work is great, but to get here, it has its toll. And I just wanna be honest about that too.

Tulaine [00:14:03] I mean, it's so true. People often talk about leadership, and certainly these leaders, you know, their impact is so in some cases breathtaking, right, that it's easy to sort of fall into this kind of individual superstar admiration. And you're right, English that without exception, there were sacrifices made. There were struggles that had to be navigated. There were.

Tulaine [00:14:27] People.

Tulaine [00:14:27] Who, in every case were skeptical, critical. But, you know, leadership is not simply about the glory part of it. It's actually much more about, you know, the working to build something from nothing, as you said. It's true. Helping change a system can be an uphill battle. One of the challenges you might face are the complexities of working with government. In our episode with Community Health Acceleration Partnership, or Chap, we learned that while it isn't easy, it is possible. And I'll tell you, it's worth every bit of effort, especially when you consider the exponential impact of government can have. Here is Wendy McCready, chap's director.

Tulaine [00:15:11] My amazing colleague Raquel always uses this analogy of the tugboat, which I think is so apropos, which is, you know, to do this work, right. We can't just have private dollars doing it right. The big money is in government, but government can be slow moving sometimes. And so the analogy is always like they're the big boat and they're trying to get into port and they know they got to get into port and eventually they will get there. But where the tugboat philanthropy can be that tugboat, that.

English [00:15:43] Really.

English [00:15:44] Helps direct a little bit here and a little bit there to get government, in this case, government dollars into the right port, which for us is really deeply engaged with England.

Jeff [00:15:59] I think most of the people in the nonprofit space would say, oh, I have to deal with the government. You know, that's one. I've always had a harder time because it's bureaucracy, right? And I would probably stay away from that personally most of the time because it's so hard. But these guys are sitting in know you got to do that. You got to work on on that side of the issue. And I'm impressed that they've been able to kind of figure out ways to do that. But to me, that's I keep thinking about. There's a lot of people out there who give up on the government, who give up on that. The larger top down ideas or the corporations, you can't deal with them. You know, they're bad people. And I think we're starting to find as such is not the case. But how do we lower that anxiety? And to me, I think we saw that a little bit in the communities. So you start at community level and work up. You start at that local city level and work up.

Tulaine [00:16:52] Jeff is referring to General Trend, the largest movement for black women's health in the country. Girl trucks members commit to daily walks to improve their health. Unlike Wendy McSweeney, who started working directly with the government. Girl treks co-founder Morgan Dixon started at the grassroots level. But in our conversation, she shared how Girl Trek is starting to integrate a focus on policy.

Morgan [00:17:15] Our women are out there walking. We've been walking for years now. We've been greeting our neighbors. We've been picking up trash. We've been doing the things that are necessary to earn the trust of our community. And now we are ready to lead. We've been exercising. We are ready and energized. Army of dew cutters that are ready to get out and make change. In addition to that, because we understand that local action is powerful, that proximate leadership is powerful, but we also understand that policy matters, right? We also understand that fair pay matters, that land distribution matters. And so how do we then direct this army in really powerful ways to affect policy and to get involved in democracy in a powerful way. So we said, we walk together. That's behavior change. We know walking is the single most powerful thing you do. We talk together, walk, talk, which is narrative change. We are creating inspiration on the ground level and creating macro narratives of change making with black women. And then we solve problems together, both by putting money in the hands of proximate leaders and by changing policy.

Tulaine [00:18:23] Morgan decided to take a grassroots approach. She felt that trying to directly change systems would be like untangling a giant knot.

Morgan [00:18:33] People start with the difficult and get completely demolished and deflated by these kinds of systems. If we started with the food systems. My God, I would have quit ten years ago. And yet, I understand that food is half of the equation and girl track. But we started with something we could control, which was our behaviors. Then we moved on to something we could with a little bit of power, a little bit of amplification control, which was the narrative and mindset. And now that we have collective power, we have people power. We can now change systems. That would be my advice. I think there are many pathways to systems change. This is the grassroots pathway, the movement building people power pathway.

Tulaine [00:19:23] So if you find yourself overwhelmed by a system you want to change, perhaps ask, what can I do today in my own community? It seems like nowadays a lot of people are asking themselves that very question.

Jeff [00:19:37] Maybe there's some openings here because people are not trusting this top down or the large organizations anymore. And I think people are starting to figure like this. Bridges. Did you guys see this? Something like that?

Tulaine [00:19:48] I did. I mean, I think that there's so much data around, like, certainly in the U.S., that trust in institutions is at an all time low. And yet here we have System Catalyst, right, who have said, hey, we have systems at scale that are impacting the day to day lives of the communities we care about. We can't really afford to be dismissive of them. You know, we got to figure out how to reshape them and reinvent them.

Jeff [00:20:14] And maybe there's openings by this stories that there have been told. Those are kind of glue that helps open people up. Right. To be able to consider alternatives they probably wouldn't have thought about before. So what are we thinking about around this first season as we go into the second season? What are we taking away, and how do you think we're going to think about the second season based on that?

Tulaine [00:20:41] Well, I mean, one thing is it's clear that we have to kind of do our best to mainstream and normalize, make accessible. The stories and experiences of these system catalysts so that we can move away from this sort of hero's journey view, which is just so dominant and so prevalent, because otherwise it just feels like only a very small number of humans can rise to the challenge of being a system. Catalyst struggle is not evidence of a lack of ability. It really is just part of the gig. So that's that's something that I'm really taking away from the season.

English [00:21:22] Yeah, I love that tune. I would echo that completely. I think that, you know, one thing that Sarah Austin said in The Moth episode, it was along the lines of, you know, stories take us from one place to another.

Tulaine [00:21:38] The Moth, in case you don't already know, is a nonprofit dedicated to the craft of storytelling. Here is Sarah Austin Jenness, their executive producer.

Sarah [00:21:47] Stories take us from one place to another. The stories that I find that are most effective don't end with a bow. Don't end very neatly. And so if you start in a place where you thought you knew the answer, and you end in a place where you realize you don't. I think that is quite effective to start conversation. So if you're studying the root of these larger issues, personal stories are of utmost importance because in many cases, there are angles and things that you didn't consider that the layperson wouldn't consider and trying to find a solution.

English [00:22:28] I really want us to, like, sink through that, because really, at the heart of this, what we want to do is tell the stories of systems change and tell the stories of of System Catalyst. And I think that in that there's this narrative around what what is the pain, what is the painful moments, what are their joyful moments? What does it look like to stand in the room sometimes with people who aren't always aligned on your vision? I think we got some good nuggets of that this season, but I really want to pull that out more. I really love a goal being, are we telling stories that take people from one place to another?

Jeff [00:23:05] You know, for me, the leadership evolution is clearly important and I see everybody growing. You know, we're all on a path, but we've never probably going to get to the end of the path. We're all still growing. I mean, you can kind of see that. So what are you guys working on? That's interesting right now.

English [00:23:22] Oh, man. I mean, a lot of really exciting things for me personally, just with my company and how things are going and and getting to be part of a lot of interesting conversations in the technology space and sort of getting to be a thought partner in a lot of, you know, thinking about how do we develop an ecosystem around something that is just growing and expanding so fast, which is really cool. It's really cool to be a part of that. And then, yeah, just there's a lot also going on in the space of maternal health that let Jeff, I get to work with you all with with chap and really finding a lot of those conversations and finding, I think as it relates to this, people being a lot more excited about looking for alternate ways to really solve complex problems, like the issues that we face in sort of the maternal health space.

Tulaine [00:24:14] That's really exciting English, and it's confirming. I feel like it's kind of aligned, you know, that. I also agree that it feels like folks are willing to dig in in a way that, I don't know, didn't feel like it was always true. So it feels like it's a great time to be doing the work that we do. For me, you know, I'm really excited about what's happening at New Profit we are moving into. It's actually our 25th year. 2023 marks year 25 for new profit. And so we're celebrating that we are growing our portfolio. I'm really getting so much energy and insight from the work that I get to do that. Jeff, you're also part of as a member of our board with New Profit. So that's been wonderful. And I'm also excited about a podcast that just launched that I'm doing in partnership with New Profit and Human Group media called Say More with Tulane Montgomery. And you know, I folks you know, you guys know English. And Jeff I say the words.

Tulaine [00:25:10] Say.

Tulaine [00:25:11] More all the time because I'm always wanting people to say more about concepts, ideas, questions. And so say more is really a place where I get to talk with different leaders of different identities and ages and sectors about their focus, their passion, and how they're looking to evolve the work they do. It does just feel like it's a time where people are seeking evolution and see more as a place where we get to talk about that with people from very different walks of life. So I'm looking forward to that and that will be a lot of fun. And I've obviously learned a lot in the system catalyst space with the two of you that I'm bringing in to say more, and there's going to be a lot of intersection across both platforms.

Jeff [00:25:55] That's great, and I look forward to continuing to work with you. Tulaine and the profit as you've led us into the proximate change models system change world. And you know, I'm dying to do what Girl Trek just did, which is go to Montgomery with their board and Montgomery, Alabama. And in experiencing that as well. So they have that is is something I would like to do in 2024 of the killer.

Tulaine [00:26:20] Can we three just go and we just go quick plan trip right. I've been dying. It's on my bucket list.

Jeff [00:26:28] Yeah. It's be fun to.

Tulaine [00:26:29] I'm I'm I'm here for it.

English [00:26:30] Let's do it. Awesome. Thank you all so much. And. Yeah. Excited for season two. Excited to engage deeper with our audience. And, I'm going to go pack my suitcase and meet you guys, and I'll.

Tulaine [00:26:43] See you there.

Tulaine [00:26:52] Thanks so much for tuning in. I have to say personally it has been a pleasure narrating the season. I hope that you will stay tuned in to System Catalyst and listen for season two, which kicks off early next year. You're going to hear more from English and Jeff on season two, and there's some great stories that they'll be bringing to you. I'm going to be changing roles, but not going far. If you want to hear more from me, please tune in to the podcast, say More with Tulane Montgomery, which you can access in the show notes for this episode. You'll also find links to all of the episodes we discussed today. Now, if you haven't already, please make sure you subscribe to System Catalyst and listen to any episode you may have missed. That's it for today's show. We'll catch you all next season. Before we go, we'd like to thank our producers at human Group media. We'd also like to thank our incredible network of partners who are supporting our mission. Echoing Green, DRK Foundation, Population Services International, Virgin Unite, Charlize Theron Africa Outreach Project, Boldly Go Philanthropy, Synergos, The Philanthropy Workshop, Nexus and New Profit. If you're interested in becoming a system catalyst and would like to learn more about our partners, please visit System catalyst.com.